Anime – Why can't the world just be simple?
19 July 2007
In response to Bateszi’s post, ensuing argument and commentary, I have but one question to ask, “Why can’t the world just be simple?” Why can’t we just leave ‘anime’ defined as animated shows produced from Japan? Why must we over complicate things by asking, albeit interesting and thought provoking, impertinent questions that are without answers? Is the definition of anime truly obsolete? Is anime really dead?
Alright, total subjectivity here, because sometimes ignorance is bliss and simple may be stupid, but it sure as hell is a lot sweeter:
Anime, to me, is made by Japanese people. The characters have big eyes and no noses, gravity defying hair and a perfect physique. The animation is shiny, it’s colorful, it’s fun. When I watch the credits, I expect not to understand, or even be able to pronounce the names of the people that worked on the show. Going with the stereotype that absolutely everything produced in Japan has to be good, anime is good, much like how everything made in China is cheap as heck and breaks in a week.
You know what, I’ll be candid, forget all of this euphemistic, supposedly intelligent non sense. A very dimwitted comment, but one that I find necessary to make: Anime is anime because it’s Japanese. I, frankly, do not care how obtuse and shallow that statement is, but when it comes down to it, that’s really the basis of this whole argument. With the advent of shows like Afro Samurai and The Five Killers and anime no longer being a purely Japanese, people find it distressing or at least bothersome that the term is defined as such. Anime is and always will be, to me anyways, Japanese cartoons.
Anime, aside from being Japanese, is also a style. It’s not just the way it looks, (though I do profess, upon contemplation and reevaluation, the aesthetics plays a large role), but it’s the way the story is presented. Ultimately, it’s that unique flavor that all anime, good or bad, has that’s so inherently Japanese, no matter what’s influencing it. Shows like Megas XLR or Samurai Jack or Avatar can’t carry the same title as shows like Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop. It’s knowing that they’re trying to imitate the style that makes it unconvincing.
You know what? The Japanese are just damn good at what they do. You can’t hand a pencil and a sheet of paper to an American or a Korean or a Chinese person and expect them to make an anime quite as good as a Japanese person can. In fact, they’ll give you something different, something totally different, and that’s good. Nothing wrong with Courage the Cowardly Dog, or Johnny Bravo or Foster’s Home, they’re perfectly beautiful and entertaining shows in their own right. Hell with anime being another subset of animation, cartoons made for a mature audience or whatever else one may decide to label anime, it’s just Japanese. Fine, they’re cartoons if you really insist, but they’re Japanese cartoons. That’s why they’re so good and that’s why they’re worth debating.
American cartoons aren’t half as provocative or innovative or, sometimes, even interesting as the animation from Japan. That’s the end of it. I’m not biased towards anime or some unpatriotic citizen. Actually, if American culture spawns late night shows like “Saul of the Mole Men”, I’ll commit treason. Regardless, I’m not even a citizen of United States (despite the fact that I live in New York), what am I being unpatriotic towards? I’ll accept the fact that Chinese cartoons (we made cartoons, say what?) are nothing compared to anime, but that’s in no way saying that the Chinese are inferior. On the contrary, the films that are made in America and China and the rest of the world are outstanding. The 3D animation being produced in American is gorgeous, Finding Nemo, good ol’ Toy Story and that new one about the mouse. Pixar is on a whole different playing field. Can you name a Japanese film that made a big splash that wasn’t animated?
The thought of Americans infiltrating the sacred anime world, besides that of dubbing horribly shows that come through, is pretty…disconcerting, to me any ways. So, what’s the deal with stuff like Afro Samurai and The Five Killers? Nothing, nothing really, basically because I haven’t seen either. I’ve seen the trailer for one and I thought it was pretty cool. Nothing to write home about, but it was worth looking at. When it comes to The Five Killers, I guess the beginning of this debate, it doesn’t require a new definition for anime.
Dumplings are made best by the Chinese (don’t argue with me), pasta is made best by Italians, and bratwurst made best by the Germans because they came up with it, or at least adapted these foods to their own culture. It’s not food made by ethnic majority residing in Europe or Asia that cater to specific tastes of said region, it’s just Chinese food or German food. Likewise, anime is not a cartoon made for an audience with maturity, or ‘classy’ animation, it’s just Japanese cartoons.
In short: Anime is made by Japanese people, they are very good at it and it is not dead. Anime will probably never die. Anime is not an obsolete term. Anime needs no other definition than the one it possesses right now as being Japanese. Anything stepping out of the proverbial box simply requires a subtitle, a translation for those unsure. It’s still anime, just with a script written by two Americans. Simple as pie.
Wrong. š
Anime is “made” by outsourced Korean companies. It’s just conceived of by the Japanese.
Now you see the problem? Sorry dude, this is a complicated world. While I object to the notion that “anime is dead”, I do believe it needs a more appropriate definition. Not necessarily broader, just more appropriate. Hence:
anĀ·iĀ·me [an-uh-mey] ~ n ~ A synonym of āJapanese animationā, meaning animation created after the Japanese style, created in Japan, and/or exhibiting characteristics of the Japanese style.
I’m going to have to make some kind of response to all of this stuff on my own blog. Very nice arguments. A fun read.
Lol, you’re sort of saying what I said, but not quite, and way blunter.
I actually liked this entry, though I sort of disagree still only because I feel like the statement of ‘anime being anime because it’s Japanese’ is shallow. But then, I suppose the same tendency towards overthinking is what you were poking fun at, hm? :-p
[…] on bateszi and Nirai Kanai, there have been arguments as to whether or not anime is dead. With shows like Afro Samurai and The […]
@hidoshi -The Japanese have a tendency for borrowing, if you will, aspects of other cultures. Their language, their religion, a clock (I’m quite serious)…or two and it’s the same with anime. However, what I’ve been saying is, these influences aside, it’s the…Japanese-ness, for a lack of better words, that makes anime what it is. Regardless of where the show is actually ‘made’, be it Korea or Japan or some other outsourced nation, like you said, it’s ‘conceived by the Japanese’. It’s conceived by the Japanese! You’re saying it yourself! Forget where it’s made, it’s conceived, the idea, born from the Japanese. It’s like a giant melting pot of ideas expressed with a uniqueness that’s undeniably Japanese.
Can’t we all just agree that anime is Japanese, and if it’s conceived by anyone else, it wouldn’t be?
Perhaps, I should lament instead for the death of simplicity, for it appears to be trendy nowadays to erect a labyrinthine around every issue.
@Brik – And I’ve responded to said post. I’m honored that you responded so elaborately to my ramblings. XD
@bettynoire – “Anime is anime because it’s Japanese” was an extreme condensation, but it got the point across. After reading all of the posts about anime and it’s terminology, it was like, gosh, that’s so complicated! I, really, always thought the thing was Japanese, anything that wasn’t didn’t count. Good as it may be, I’m not labeling other shows anime. Personal preference? Deferring to ignorance to seek shelter from verbal artillery and confusion? Yes!
Hardly. Because if we want to talk strictly about concept, then Anime is indeed American, owing its general creation to Walt Disney.
While anime has a distinctly Japanese flavour, it does not need to be made IN Japan or BY the Japanese. It has to touch on themes that are “anime”. Therefore, MegaTokyo if animated, would be an anime, and as it is, is in fact a manga. š
Oh and for addendum…
If we are to accept that a thing must be produced by its country of origin to remain that thing, then realism needs to be produced strictly in Italy, and cubism isn’t cubism unless it’s made by the French.
And by the way, the best Italian Pizza I ever had was made by a Chinese chef in Canada.
So that doesn’t work.
MegaTokyo is a webcomic, I’m going to reject completely the notion of it being a manga or it’s animation as anime. The thought bothers me. If anything, we can label it as “heavily influenced”. It’s made by people who’s names I can pronounce, XD!
You’re making it too complicated that it needs be. Anime is made best and mostly be the Japanese. Japanese people makes and have made some indecently good shows. All other imitations of such indecently good shows were not so good. Anime that “touch on themes that are ‘anime'” do not have that distinct Japanese flavor. Take Megatokyo, which I do not read, I’m under the impression that it has at best an American flavor. A lot of things have an American flavor, I do not need to taste it when I’m craving Japanese food, or cartoon shows.
In all honesty, the point of the food metaphor was to point out the fact that no one argues about the terminology of “Chinese food”, even though it’s a completely debatable topic, seeing how people think it comes only from a paper carton. They simply accept Americanized Chinese food as Chinese and those who don’t, do not. No one is begging for a broader definition of Chinese food to encompass General Tsao’s chicken.
It’s a continuous story, published IN manga format, and being published by Kodansha in Japan. š I could bring up other examples of such if you like, including paper-only publications like Tokoypop’s “Skin Deep”. Either way, western manga exists, live with it.
Sorry if you have a vocal stumbling block, I’m sure a Japanese guy with a lisp has problems too, but let’s say Hiro Tanaka of San Fransico, USA makes a manga. Well… It’s made by a Japanese guy, but it’s not from Japan. What’s more, he may have been born and raised there. He’s not even Japanese by original nationality. He’s only racially Japanese. What does that make his product?
To say there is a distinctly “Japanese” flavour to a thing means to homogenise it. What if someone from Okinawa writes a manga using their own island culture? Is it still manga, or is it something wholly different?
Or let’s say a Korean living in Japan, who was born and raised there makes a manga. Is his work manga while our Mr. Tanaka’s work is not? Who are you to attach race or nationality to a style of art? It’s not only pointless, it raises the needless complications you yourself are condemning. It is an utterly outdated and deeply elitist notion that you’re presenting, one that fandom as a whole needs to move beyond.
My definition works. It is the simplest, most appropriate definition available, and I do not say that because I wish to flex my ego. I say that because I have yet to come across any definition which takes the above into consideration.
And dear God, please watch your grammar. I’m having a hard time reading some of what you wrote. š
I think you’ve missed my point, therefore I ask again, “Why can’t the world just be simple?” Why do you find it necessary to illustrate these intricate, hypothetical situations? Maybe I gave people the wrong idea by saying anime is anime because it’s Japanese.
Any case, regardless of who wrote it (Mr. Tanaka of San Francisco, USA or that Korean guy in Japan or the Okinawa guys), where it’s ‘farmed’, what influenced it, or who worked on it, if the show feels right, looks right and rubs me the right way, I’m good. Actually, the elitist in me classifies Korean manga and anime as not really being manga and anime. That’s just me.
Point being, most things that rub me the right way are made by a bunch of Japanese guys. They draw well, I’m envious of their talents, but I love them anyways. I dislike these arguments because it’s not the reason I watch anime. I’m asking for simplicity because I really just want to go and sit and watch something for a couple of hours and walk away feeling abnormally happy.
This whole thing is subjective and will never be resolved and therefore it is pointless. In the end, I could care less about what the general definition of anime is. It’s really irrelevant what’s appropriate or best. It’s like presenting a person who’s never fallen in love what love is. One will never understand what love truly is unless one falls in love. One will never experience anime unless one sits down and watches a couple of shows and find for themselves, their own proper definition.
Your definition may indeed be:
anĀ·iĀ·me [an-uh-mey] ~ n ~ A synonym of āJapanese animationā, meaning animation created after the Japanese style, created in Japan, and/or exhibiting characteristics of the Japanese style
But, mine is still:
Anime is made by Japanese people, they are very good at it.
And my reasons for it are stated above. You can disagree with my definition, in fact, you are already disagreeing. There is nothing wrong in that. You have a right to disagree.
And I leave you with a, possibly irrelevant, Zen Buddhist koang:
How many Zen monks does it take to change a light bulb?
Oh, and my grammar, thank freshman composition at a math and science high school and a year of ESL. My apologies.
It’s “Koan” damnit. I’m Buddhist by the way, so that comes off as fairly patronising, but nonetheless, I get what you’re stabbing at. Everything is relative. I also reject that form of reasoning as the lazy man’s way out, and far too deconstructionist to be of any use. I don’t find it particularly Buddhist either, as Buddhism tends to have several practical and grounded opinions on things, despite its assertion that these are changeable.
The problem with your definition is that it is neither simple in effect (because it causes confusion and misconceptions), nor is it as encompassing as it needs to be. My situations may be hypothetical, but they are extremely close to reality, making them essentially practical discussions to this entire affair.
The biggest issue with your definition however, is that it attaches race to art. This is both a form of racism (though I am sure you don’t mean it that way, so therefore I won’t accuse you of this), and is extremely short-sighted. Beyond that, it also neglects the fact that “anime” is not originally Japanese, but in fact American, if you really want to boil it down to basics. It has become Japanese yes, it has a Japanese flavour yes, but it is not MADE by Japanese. Certainly it was at one time the exclusive domain of Japan. It is not anymore, and has not been for some years now. The minute they began outsourcing or insourcing that entire definition broke down in a cardiac arrest.
It’s all Heidi’s fault, really.
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I’ve had it spelled koan by an English teacher, and koang by a history teacher and kon by someone else. O_o’….
If anything, this was just poking at fun at how seriously some people take things. I obviously don’t adhere completely and only to that definition. In fact, anime didn’t have, or need to have, a definition until today. Whatever I judge anime on is whatever I judge anime is on, I can’t even explain it.
It was kinda like, what’s the big deal about? What’s anime? It’s that Japanese thing, you know. Don’t get your ovaries up in an uproar. Like, dude, chill, the world’s about as complicated as a pie. Wikipedia has names for stuff like American made anime and manga (laughable OEL manga, original English language manga). It’s not right to assume anime is purely Japanese, but to fold everything remotely simpler into the genre isn’t really correct either. Sometimes it’s better to leave it alone. People aren’t kidding when they tell your ignorance is bliss.
Wow, some very complex arguing here.
The analogy to Chinese food strikes me as something very interesting.
A) Most Chinese people from China will never acknowledge the “Chinese food” in America (what the hell is choy suey? Literally, it’s mixed pieces, and as one story tells it, it’s composed of stir fried leftovers) as genuinely Chinese.
B) Yet at the same time, a significant part of the world has never tasted anything different, and define Chinese food in terms of chop suey and General Tsao chicken.
C) The “Chinese” food where I live is as different from the “Chinese food” in America as the “Chinese food” in China.
Yet, all of them are acknowledged by different people to be “Chinese Food”. People rarely wonders if it’s “true” Chinese food or not; it’s just Chinese food.
So then, back to anime. One may define anime as this, another may define anime as that. Neither POV makes what is discussed less an anime to the person. If Mr. X wants to call XXX as anime, I doubt anything Mr. Y can say will persuade him.
The point is, everyone defines anime differently. Some groups of people may have the same definition, but not all of people in the world will abide to one single definition. Personally, I think there isn’t any point in imposing a single definition, not when what is called anime is always changing, evolving, and everyone has a different opinion. It’s IMO not right to say someone’s definition is wrong and insist one’s own definition is right, because it is their definition for themselves, after all.
I prefer to define anime as Japanese animation. I do not expect everyone to agree. But I would personally appreciate it if people don’t come up to me and tell me I’m wrong.
Just my 2 cents.
@Briar – Oh my god, I love you. Are the only one that understands my point?
“So then, back to anime. One may define anime as this, another may define anime as that. Neither POV makes what is discussed less an anime to the person. If Mr. X wants to call XXX as anime, I doubt anything Mr. Y can say will persuade him.”
I’ve been trying to tell hidoshi this for…simply put, a while. Sure, he might disagree with me totally on the issue, but nothing he can say will really change my mind. Same for him. Hence, the ‘complex’ argument above.
The Chinese food problem actually bothered me a lot in real life, until I came to the same conclusion. It’s pointless to argue about it because just accept it anyways. Same for anime, pointless, because we just accept it regardless of what anyone else says.
Your two cents, right now, to me is a million dollars.
I’m an asshole and a stickler for an argument, what can I say? I know I come off as pretty bull-headed, but I like to establish harmony — without sacrificing accuracy. I’ve never been one to leave “well enough” alone to be honest, probably stemming from my frequent frustrations with the abuse of language, amongst other things. I mean, I abuse English pretty frequently, but I try to keep an open book on how a language can be used, provided it’s not in a degenerative fashion.
“Bling bling” just won’t ever sound good to me. No sir, no how.
@Xerox — don’t feel bad, Briar isn’t the only one who understood your point. I also understood it. It makes a lot of sense. And there are certain points I agree with you about. But there are others I disagree with. That’s why I just wrote my own blog entry, so I could sort those things out in my head (while being to edit them, too).
@Everyone — maybe we should just use the word anime to describe everything that is animated, like the Japanese do.
@Hidoshi – I’m the one coming off sounding bull-headed. But, anyways, I think it safe to leave this whole argument as is. It’s not progressing in any direction and it’s still pointless. I think Briar said best what I’ve been trying to say for a while.
“Bling bling”, eh, well…. ._.;
@BrikHaus – I rather liked your blog entry and walked away knowing better how you saw anime. I enjoy the fact that you disagree with me, but I’m not out to convert others.
As for using anime to describe everything animated, well, that’d solve everything. But, I still like to think of anime as Japanese. It’s just me. Maybe because since I was five, I was under the impression the pretty moving pictures on TV came from Japan. It’s hard to shake that. XD
Eh no worries. I think an argument can be a healthy thing. I’m starting to tire of the definition war too, even though I maintain my stance on the matter. Cheers. ^^
Glad the feeling’s mutual.
Meh, they just need a new word for japanese made anime, like they have for AMV’s (MAD’s instead.)
then none of you can whine about unimportant shit anymore, yay!